Episode 44: Open Doors and Enduring Suffering

Sometimes in life, something is tugging at you that you know you need to do - it’s your calling. Maybe the path isn’t perfectly clear, but God provides one open door at a time to take the next step of obedience.

In this episode, Nathan Hicks shares his unique journey of starting an outdoor adventure program that guides groups through the wilderness with goals to help them develop character and glorify Christ. 

Nathan also shares the difficult journey of watching his father suffer from ALS and losing him. Though it was very difficult, Nathan’s dad chose not to waste his suffering. Even as he was losing his ability to talk, he became even more motivated to share the gospel with everyone he could.

Higher Ground Website: ​​http://www.hgusa.org/

Everyday Grit Podcast: https://everydaygritpodcast.podbean.com/ (Ep. 007 - Enduring the Impossible is the episode with Nathan's dad)

Let's Connect!

Instagram: @only.God.stories

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GivingGal 

YouTube: Stephanie L. Jones

Website: https://shineforwardcreative.com/ 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Friends, it's Stephanie here with the Only God Podcast sharing stories. Only God could write. And today I am joined with my good friend Nathan Hicks. Hey Nathan.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hey Stephanie.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

How are you today?

SPEAKER_00 0:12

I'm doing well. What about you?

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Good, good. I'm so uh grateful to have you on the podcast today. Uh with all my guests. I always start with our only God connection. So would you share our only God connection?

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Yeah, definitely. And thank you for having me. It's good to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

I think uh it's been a handful of years now, probably going back to 2021, somewhere in there. I started doing some work with another company uh that was just getting going and I was helping them create some um some training events and some things like that. And I worked in conjunction with them for about 18 months. And somewhere in that time, uh, I think you and I probably became aware of one another and had a few interactions, and then we both happened to be at uh at a race and met in person and just initiated a friendship. And you know, as that the partnership kind of waned and dissolved, but the friendships that I made along the way um have lasted, and that's been the best part of it. And yours is one of those. So that's in a very succinct way, uh, I think our only God connection.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Yeah, no, I love it. And for the audiences, Nathan's in Georgia, so I always love to like when God like connects me with people who are not in my state of Indiana. Um, and like you said, is we've been friends for now probably over five years, and it just seems like God continues to uh connect us and and we stay in touch. So uh thank you for sharing that. So I would love for you to share your only God story. I love your story. I love how God has worked in your life. Um, and I'll let you go take it away.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Okay. Well, I'll I'll if it's all right with you, I'll start pretty far back in the story.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Just because there's some pieces of it. So I grew up in the panhandle of uh Florida, where there are not many mountains at all. Um, but as a kid, we would, my dad would take us and we would camp and we'd go backpacking. And as we got older, we would do one or two trips a year, somewhere further north in the southeast, either North Georgia or western North Carolina. And something about the mountains and something about being in creation, something just about all of it connected with me. And I loved it in a way that I don't know, even now it's a little hard to describe. Uh, and so it just became something I enjoyed. And then fast forward uh a number of years in college, I was studying initially to be an accountant.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Um and I gotta I I would have never guessed that. Now, I know you're very detailed, so maybe I could see that, but to know for the audience, to know what you're gonna say and you do now, and then to know that you were gonna be an accountant, like pretty pretty different.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think the brain, um, the detail-oriented stuff is is probably the only similarity. And my dad was an accountant for much of his life, and so it was just I saw it, I saw, I looked up to him, he was successful. It was just the world that I was around growing up, and so um, you know, not in a bad way, but for lack of something different, um, that was just kind of what I started gravitating toward. And I was in my sophomore year of school, and I started volunteering with the church that we that I'd grown up in, and I was part of a uh a really small group Bible study at the time. And as I began to to get to share life at that time, I was in college working with middle school and high school students. And and so as I got to do that, I felt um some gifting and and learned some things that I and initially the thought was I really liked this and I feel led to to do this. I know that accounting is a difficult job. It doesn't offer you you work a lot of hours, and I wonder if there's something else I could do that would allow me the flexibility of schedule where I could do this. And I thought of um of a friend that was old, he's about 10 years older, and he was a good friend and mentor to me and and other friends that were in college, and he just his schedule was flexible, and he could you know call and say, Hey, let's go water skiing this afternoon. And so I started thinking, like, you know, what would allow me? That was just like enough of a seed to get me to start thinking outside of accounting. And it wasn't long, less than a year uh later, I really just felt the Lord's nudge to say, you know, accounting isn't what I have for you, and and something more vocational is what I'm calling you to or leading you to. And at the time, again, context matters so much. The only really only context I really had for that was working in a church. I'd grown up in a a really um a pretty big church and it was pretty healthy in most respects. And so I'd had a really good positive experience. And so I said, okay, I'll I'll go down that road and I'll go to seminary and I'll, you know, whatever, I'll work in church. My granddad had been a preacher, so that was a very familiar thing to me, even though it was a big shift from accounting. And kind of at the same time, me and two buddies would take uh kids from the youth group, we'd take them camping and just do things outdoors. And this idea was first planted with the three of them for me. Like, wow, it wouldn't be really cool to combine sharing Christ with people with what we like to do outdoors. And it was nothing more than an idea. We did a few, a few trips, uh, just the three of us leading kids, and and that was it. So, fast forward, I go on uh uh through hike to the AT after college, before going to seminary, and just continued to fall more and more in love with doing things in the wilderness and uh went to school in Texas, which was paused there because you just said that like it was like, oh, I went camping overnight.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

So if the listener or whoever, if you're watching this, you didn't hear what Nathan said is he did a through hike on the Appalachian Trail. And uh for like I'm familiar, I'm obsessed with the Appalachian Trail. I would love to do it, but for the listener, like, can you just tell a little bit about like how many miles, how long it took you, like just a little bit so they have a context of like just what you did in that time before you know your next step. And was there any, I don't know, like revelation from God or anything like that while you're out there doing the AT?

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Yeah, I'll give it more than a sentence anyway. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

No, that'll be good.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Yeah, so for those that are unfamiliar, the j the uh Appalachian Trail starts in Georgia and runs to Maine. It's about 2200 miles, um, give or take. And way back when I did it, uh we weren't making we weren't making videos on YouTube or Instagram. We just were hiking, we didn't have cell phones, and it took me about five months to do it. Um, I started in the beginning of March and finished at the end of July. And I I don't know, I didn't expect any big revelation or any big you know spiritual moment. I think oddly enough, the things and I I remember coming back from the trip and some of my dad's friends and people, you know, adults that had taken me hiking as a kid wanted to get together. And one of them asked me, you know, what did you learn? What are and I just remember thinking, I don't, I don't know, I don't know what I learned. It was awesome. And you know, it's it's taken a long time for some of the lessons to come out.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

I I think I I probably did have some romanticized version of it where I would, you know, commune with the Lord and I would hear from him daily. And instead, I found that I'm a task-driven individual, and whether the task is a to-do list in my notebook or whether it's Hike Miles, um, that's my default is to get up and do the thing in front of me. And I have to make time for other things that are important, um, no matter where I am. So there was there was not a lot of um just sitting around and yeah, it it so it taught me that about myself, probably more than anything. Yeah. Um, but I I I as much as I wanted to be done when I was done, I it I wasn't sick of the outdoors. I mean, it it only deepened my love, uh, my love for it, and also as much as I I couldn't articulate the things that it had stirred in me and taught me, I knew that it was shaping me and changing me. So I knew the power of the context in terms of um the opportunity to learn lessons and to grow. So I went to went to school in Texas, kind of a last-minute shift, and uh, you know, and in hindsight, I can see it was just the Lord pulling me out of my comfort zone. It wasn't, I don't even know the school I was gonna go to initially, I think, is a better school, and I would have liked better in some ways. Um, but I didn't know anyone in Texas. I it was just the Lord putting me in a place that was not comfortable at all. Uh, but I met a guy there that um had worked for Outward Bound seasonally, and so he was back and forth, and I had just come off the trail, and you know, I was surrounded by it was a big denominational school, and there were just a lot of what I call preacher boys there that were like, I'm gonna be a preacher because my dad was and my granddad, and that's great. It just is I'm not that person. I don't I'm not gonna wear a coat and tie to class to try to play the part. I'm gonna probably wear camouflage pants and sandals and a t-shirt to push the other way.

SPEAKER_02 9:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

And so this friend of mine, uh now, now a really good friend, I noticed him wearing an outward bound shirt. We struck up a conversation, and you know, we were kindred spirits, kind of surrounded by people that weren't. And along that that semester that he was there, uh, that we overlapped, he told me about this place in California, and uh it was a wilderness program, uh Christ-centered wilderness program that ran trips anywhere from four to 21 days long. And when he told me about it, and we pulled up the website, it was in you know, it was uh intangible, this real that real thing that uh up until then I couldn't really grasp any context for, but it was that seed that had been planted a few years prior, and I was like, oh, that's I want to do that. And so I made arrangements to you had to get some certifications and stuff even to apply. So I I spent the next year doing that and then applied the the following year and got hired and went out there and worked. Um that first summer was probably 98, and it was it was as amazing as I hoped it would be and as I thought it would be.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

The romanticize like the AT is here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

Yes, it was like this is just you know, pinch me. I can't believe this is real, and I can't believe I'm doing it. And we were in the Sierra Nevada Mountains outside of Yosemite, so just amazing terrain, amazing weather, um, surrounded by really cool people. And my job was to take people backpacking and climbing for anywhere from four to 21 days and use that experience as a means of helping them grow personally and grow in relationship to the Lord. And I loved it. I didn't want to go back to school. I mean, I I was gonna go back, but I didn't want summer to end. Yeah. And I knew you you made a two-summer commitment, so I knew I was going back there um the following summer. And through that next year of school, you know, kind of simultaneous to all of this, uh, the mentor to me that had been with me in Pensacola kind of during this big shift in um trajectory, had since moved to the area of Texas where I was and was planting a church and asked if I would come and volunteer and help get it going. And there was a very easy kind of runway that would be if I if I did that while I was in school, then I could probably get a job there umce I graduated. So this path began to emerge of kind of a traditional ministry path, um, if I wanted it. But I just felt this unrest in my being. Like, I I don't know, there's this other thing. And going in the spring before, um, you know, probably a month before I went back out for my second summer in uh in California. I was thinking a lot about it, and I just was I was like, how do you how does this work? Like, why am I so drawn to this? Uh, but I'm getting paid like $35 a day when I'm working. Like there's I don't see a an avenue where this is ever sustainable. And you know, as a as an adult, let alone like having a family. And so I was I was wrestling with that even though there wasn't a I didn't have to make a decision right now, but it was really stirred up in me. And I remember an overwhelming sense of freedom. The Lord just saying, like, stop worrying about down the road. Like just you're free to step in this direction. And I remember sharing it with my now wife, then girlfriend, and uh, we were visiting my parents in Florida, and I remember it like it was yesterday we pulled the car into the garage, and I don't remember why this topic came up, but I just said, Hey, here's kind of what I'm thinking, and explained it all out. I said, You know, I just feel free to pursue this. And she just looked at me like, Well, yeah, of course, you know, kind of no duh. I was like, Oh, I thought that was a big thing. And she was like, Yeah, of course, that's you know, you're made to do that.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

And oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Yeah, it was really good affirmation for me. Um, and and that has been consistently the affirmation of people that I trust that are close to me has been a helpful thing for me.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Can I pause on that for a second?

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

I I just want to say this because I was having this conversation with a friend earlier at coffee, and we were talking about both she and I have very supportive husbands. Like we're visionaries, we're big dreamers, we always seem to have some crazy idea, like where God's leading us. And we talked about our husbands, like going, okay, like if that's and to hear you say, like, your girlfriend now wife was like, yeah, like okay. And but also I've seen like so many times what I feel like often is the number one reason, at least in mine, and I don't know, maybe it's different for women, is like women don't pursue wherever God's calling them, is because their spouse is putting up a roadblock for them. Like it does seem crazy. It's why would you do that? Whatever. So I I don't know if you want to comment on that, but it just like when you said that, it I think as Christians, it is important that as spouses, if our spouses uh being led by the Lord, like then we go, okay, Lord, like we trust you too. Um, I don't know, any comments?

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Yeah, I mean, I think that we are so conditioned culturally and as a society to not necessarily stay in bounds. I think what we're searching for is a sense of security and safety. And we all have some context of what will provide that and what won't provide that. And if you are married to someone who doesn't, I mean, it comes back around in the story later. She she eventually kind of says, like, look, it's now or never if we're gonna start this thing that we since started. But I was like looking for every other option where I could still do outdoors, still engage people, and maybe it was this you know, my perceived sense of security. In reality, it was it's no more secure. Uh someone else can fire you, someone else's business can go under, someone else can fire you, you know. I think it is ultimately we want things to be secure, we want to feel good about it. And maybe for some people there is we want to make X amount of dollars and and have it, you know, some crazy idea I have, I'm not guaranteed of that. Right. Um but I think there's this I think it's the security piece.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Whereas again, you know, this whole this whole thing for me was very clearly you are it is a sense of freedom and a sense of you don't have to worry about what's coming. And that was those two pieces uh at that time were were as clear as day. And that has just since been that lesson's just been repeated over and over in this whole thing. Um I'm very fortunate to be married to someone that's kind of just like let's just do that and we'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Um I I love that.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Yeah. Uh so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Jump back into your story, but I just wanted to point that out because yeah, I just think it is important.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

So yeah, and I and I'm sharing all of you know, this is obviously my perspective. She would have a different take on some of the details and and how she got dragged into this. But um so we go I go out the second summer and I sit down with my director and I'd say, Hey, look, this is you know, I realize there's full there's five full-time people here, but I feel really convinced and kind of compelled that I want to do this sort of work after school. So I just I just want to let you know, kind of as um in case anything ever comes up, know that I'm interested in this beyond just a cool summer job. And he said, Okay, that's great. And I didn't think anything of it. And probably two or three weeks later, not very far into the summer, he said, Hey, you got a minute? Let's um let's talk. I said, Sure. So, hey, Dave, who was the founder of the organization, he was at that time working in marketing. He said, he's leaving probably in a year and a half, two years. Um, would you be interested in taking that job, interviewing for that job? I was like, I can't, this is crazy. Uh I said, Yeah, anything that you know, marketing's not that doesn't appeal to me, although that that wasn't what I ended up getting my degree in. But anything to be able to do this job, um, yes, I'm very interested. And so I ended up interviewing for that job. I got the job, the timing worked out great. I went to work there after seminary and worked there a couple of years full time and got married during that period, and really, you know, thought that I'd probably be there for for longer, and some things shifted and uh and we ended up moving back to the southeast um after a couple of years. And kind of as we left, uh maybe even shortly before, kind of the idea was just planted. What would it look like if you started your own organization in the southeast? How would it be different by nature of geography? How would it be nature uh different by nature of um preference or things that you want to do? But it was again just an idea that was there. And I didn't, you know, I have no clue how you do that. I don't know how you start something from nothing, I don't know where you get money, I don't know where you get clients, and that'd be cool, but and just kind of put it there. And so we ended up moving to Rome, Georgia. My wife uh was a teacher, was actively teaching at the time, and we kind of looked all over North Georgia and settled on Rome. Uh, she had an interview, got a job offer, and she had gone to school here. And as much as we didn't necessarily want to come back to where she had been, it just really began lining up where it seemed like that was what the Lord was leading us to do. And so she got that job. I had she had a friend that said, Hey, if if you guys move back here, Nathan can work as a carpenter with us for as long as he wants. We'll I had no experience because we'll teach him and he's got a job for as long as he wants it. And so we did that, and I learned carpentry, and you know, one thing led to another. We met people and they said, Hey, you should talk to Barry College, and you could teach as an adjunct in the um, you know, climbing and backpacking classes, kayaking and things like that. So I did that, and along the way, there was this possible um, hey, we may be able to create a job position for you, um, teaching classes and doing some other stuff on the outdoor side of things. I was like, okay, that would be cool. And and that's kind of what I latched on to for a little while. And you know, the college moved at the pace that colleges do, and it was dragged on and on and on. And in this time, we had had our first um child had been born, and I I don't think we were pregnant with our second, but it was it she ended up coming quickly, and uh and it kind of came down to we have a month we I was getting I was getting paid like come on full time for a month, hopefully at the end of that month, you we have the approval from the school to get a contract. And my wife and I talked and we felt this urgency, like something has to give. We need some sense of certainty one way or the other. And so, all right, let's pray that over the course of this month we'll have some clarity as to whether or not the Lord wants to plant me at this college or wants us to start this thing that we've talked about starting. And pretty quickly, and I mean, probably not even halfway through the month, we just began to get a sense of peace around starting what would become higher ground, and that just grew over time. And you know, the college dragged its feet, which only affirmed our decision.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

You're right.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

And then the last the last day of this temporary job, uh, my boss came in. He said, Hey, good news, the school approved the position. And I was like, You've got to be kidding me. And I'm not great at hiding my emotion. And and he told me the news, and then he looked at me and said, Are you glad? Like I said, I'm confused more than anything. Yeah. And so I went home and we talked about it, and and she was all in favor of doing this, uh starting something. She was like, I realize, you know, that it's fun teaching at the school and it seems secure, but I really think that we should do this other. And I talked to a friend in uh in Australia that just has been a good friend. He started, we that's where we got the name. He started higher ground Australia years before us. And he said, Look, you can you can take this job and work it for six months when when the contract renews, just let him know from the from the gate that you're out of the gate that you're not going to renew the contract, but you can help him get the position going, and then you've got six months, you can start working out the details of starting your own company. And so that's what we did. I just I was transparent with the school and said. You know, at this point we feel really compelled to do this other thing. And so we're gonna do that. I know you've worked hard to get this position approved, so I'll work it for six months and I'll help you find my replacement so that when the contract renews, the position is secure for as far as funding. And so that's what we did. And we began in that six-month period, um, you know, thinking through all the parts of starting an organization, what we wanted to focus on, and how we would get people and who it'd be, and it's just really so much, and so much shifted probably from what my initial vision of what higher ground would be.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

I look at I just laugh now because it's at its core, it's doing the same thing, but it does it so differently than how I thought it would first do it. Yeah. Um and so we started and we just started sharing with people that we were close to that we were gonna start this thing. And through some relationships I had, I would go teach CPR at some camps about an hour from here, and I just begin sharing with those camp owners and directors, you know, hey, we're starting this company and it's gonna use the outdoors to impact people. Here's how I would see a partnership working with a camp. But I really have no idea what your camp looks like, and so I don't even know if that's a need for you. I'm just letting you know that you know we're here, we're gonna be here if we can ever do anything for you. And one of those connections, one of those camp owners um called me a few months later and said, Hey, we have this need, and the group that's been providing that need, the client doesn't would like to make a change, it's something that you could do, and that said, yes, we can do it, and we went and did, and it went well, and it that's kind of where everything started. But um all of the I mean, all of the work that we do, a bunch of work for camps now, and it just wasn't on my radar at all. We use two climbing areas with an hour from here, and it so it makes it look like Rome was this strategic move to do all that we do, and I I didn't know the camps were there, I didn't know the climbing areas were there. I mean, God just put us where he wanted us for what was gonna come, and I've seen that play out over and over and over.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

That's such an important part because I do think so many times is we try to be strategic. Like we're trying to think about like what's the next move to make or the next three moves or have everything. I'm a planner. Are you a planner?

SPEAKER_00 24:25

I am. Yeah, I think I am, but I've I've I've come to realize with strategy my strategy stinks. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Yeah, that's what I mean. Is like I think there is this balance of like, even if you are like, but Stephanie, I'm a planner. It's like, yes, I am too, but God is a better planner. And so, like, hold your plans and you know, think, okay, I'm gonna go to Rome, I'm gonna do X, but then be open to be like, God might take you somewhere else. And so that's so incredible that it's like He moved you there, you had one vision, and God's like, no, I got something else in mind for you. But then you were also like, can you share of like how you were open and how you gave up like your own vision? Was that hard, or were you just like, this is where the work is, this is where the Lord's leading, we're gonna do this?

SPEAKER_00 25:16

No, I don't think it was hard. I think it was more in a way I was ignorant before, and not in a bad way. I just you know, the same buddy in um in Australia. When I I talked to him a lot early on, and I said, Hey, we're gonna move forward, we're gonna start this thing. And and for a little while, he expressed interest in doing something in the US. And this part of me that longed for security was like, Oh, Rod will do something in the US, we can just jump alongside that, and there'll be security there. And the timing was just not there for him. And but I said, Hey, we're gonna do this. I think uh, you know, backpacking trips where we can take people out for a week or more at a time and and really have extended time in the wilderness. And I know the impact that that um the potential that has. And he said, Look, all that's great. Um, but I'll I hear you saying that you are starting this to impact people. What you need to consider, what I would urge you to consider is what happens on a single day in the wilderness or climbing um that is as close to what happens in a week, or put another way, what happens in a week that at some level happens in a day that would allow you to engage people that aren't going to come for a week, but they'll come for a day. So there's just this broadening of is this about a specific type of adventure, or is this about using all adventure to engage people kind of at every place that you can connect with them? Yeah. And that was just, I mean, that was and remains a huge shift to say, I I still have my preference. If you said design a trip that's gonna have the most potential for impact, I'd say we're gonna go backpacking for a really long time, and there's lots of reasons why. But that's just not all that's not gonna happen for a lot of people. And so you say, well, what can I do with a one-day canoe trip or one day climbing trip or uh an experience on the ropes course? I can still make an impact in a person's life and I can plant a seed. That was a big shift, and I think you know, the Rome piece geographically, it's I mean, Rome's a great spot. Geographically, if I could get closer to western North Carolina, that's you know, that's kind of where the cool mountains are in the southeast.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

But the need isn't as great there as it is here, like we because because we are where we are, there's a lot of need, and there aren't a lot of people that are meeting the need in the way that we are.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

And again, it seems great, it seems like great strategy. It just wasn't strategy at all. Uh yeah. And so I really come to come to a good place with we get to engage people in some really cool environments, and we get to to have whatever length of time, whether it's a day or whether it's a week, and to use an adventure very intentionally to try to speak into who they are and give them an experience that's dynamic and that teaches them about themselves and about the Lord and about the people around them. So it was, I think, more of a an eye-opening than it was like dragging me this way. It was more like this is a if you if you expand your vision a little bit, expand what you're willing to do, you can have an impact both more broadly and more deeply in people's lives.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Right, right. And when you look at like um who you work with, so how long have you guys been running higher ground?

SPEAKER_00 28:30

We just finished our 19th summer.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

That's crazy. We're at 20 years next year.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

It it blows my mind.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

I know. I I just love how God has worked and like, yeah, just that, you know, you said earlier is like, what would it look like? And it started with like this one question. And can you speak into that a little bit? Because I think people do get ideas a lot. They may feel like, oh, this is a cool idea, or I feel like God gave me an idea or put a desire on my heart. And how do you go from and I think a lot of people start there because it seems so crazy, like this is crazy. I couldn't do this. Let me just go take the job at the college, going back to what you said earlier of like that's secure. Now I have a family. Um, but can you talk about like were you like you get the idea and are you praying through this? Obviously, you're talking to people that you trust. It seems like, did you just take like, okay, I'm just gonna take the next step? And God kept opening the doors. Like, what did that look like from the idea to 19 years later?

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Yeah, it was very much um someone told me once, he said, in my own life, um, speaking of his, if something keeps coming up, and the word he used was it's a burden and and not in a bad way, it's just something that won't leave him alone. He said, I tend to pay attention to those things. And this was very much that for me. I think my wife was probably an easier sell. Um, but for me, it just I would try to find some peace in something else or some sense of um purpose in it, and this thing just kept it was like gnawing at me in the best way possible, it just wouldn't leave me alone. And that made me pay attention to it. And then from there it was, you know, praying um for sure, and talking to people. And I think even, you know, there's some sense of I talked about this idea of borrowing confidence. Like I can we can borrow confidence from others around us when we don't quite have it. And so there's definitely some of that. Like I would talk to people, and uh there's a guy that helped us start the company that's on our board now. Um, and we talk about like, oh, could it could maybe could work this way or we could run this kind of trip. And it it was really this sense of dreaming enough, tangibly dreaming enough, that my inside started getting released a little bit, like I started opening my posture to the possibility. I guess probably first the idea, then a possibility, and then taking steps that direction. And I mean, I've said a lot of times, whereas I'm no good at strategy, I'm pretty good at seeing an open door and taking a step through it. And once I now I realize the process, I usually understand I can recognize the door. There's some apprehension or fear about what's gonna happen if I step through it. There's still some uncertainty on the other side, but I've I've seen that play out so many times that I I'm pretty good at recognizing now. Oh, yes, I don't know how it's gonna work out, but we're supposed to take a step through this door. And that was it. I mean, it was just really one thing after another. And so that conversation with the camp owner, you know, I'm like, oh, suddenly this is this is real, and we did this, we went and did this job, and they were just couldn't say enough about what a good job we did. And I was like, Well, this is if this is the bar, I got this. Like, we we can do this. And you know, fast forward six months, and we sat down with that camp and kind of talked about doing some summer stuff, and we had the potential of work, and so then it was like, okay, well, we have no gear and we have no money, and uh, what are we gonna do? And so I sat down with friends, you know, friends' parents that I'd grown up with and said, Hey, we're trying to start this thing, and we need this amount of dollars in um two months, and then a month later we need this much more to buy gear, and it's pretty simple. If we don't have the money, we won't buy the gear, and that's the end of this. It won't, you know, won't go. And there have been so many of those where all along the way the Lord provides enough for the need. He has never provided so much that I don't have to remain faithful and remember who is providing what.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

So it was we got enough money to buy the first you know amount of gear we needed, um, and we still needed some more money for the summer's gear, but but that came in. And it really was just a step at a time. And I think the more intimately involved you are in a business or organization, especially if you're on the the founding side of it, I think the more you see it's not as skilled or gifted as the people involved may be. It's not them that are making things happen. And that's just that's higher ground over and over. I mean, I think of a year that probably halfway through the year, somewhere, you know, my dad came and said, Hey, I did a cash flow projection, we need to talk. So, okay. He said, that we're this much short by the end of the year if something doesn't change. And I don't remember the number, but it was not insignificant. And it was far enough in the year that there wasn't it wasn't like we can go land some big fish that's gonna save us. And I just remember thinking, I know that we do we deliver a good service and a good you know program. All I know to do is put my head down and walk through every door that presents itself and trust that the Lord's gonna kind of make ends meet and we're still here. And it was the same thing hiring someone, the same thing when I when my wife quit teaching and we needed to figure out insurance. I mean, there's kind of all been all these little benchmarks along the way, right? And I'm not smart enough, or nor do I have enough connections to just call someone and say, hey, we need this much money to keep things going. Right. It's just been the Lord yeah, we we have one step ourselves 20 years into this.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

I love that. And I so and you run it as a nonprofit, right? I don't think you've said that.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

No, I haven't, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

And it's a hundred percent profit or you so or do you run both for-profit and non-profit?

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Yeah, so some probably 80% of our revenue is um is user generated, so we do charge a fee for most of what we do, not all. And and then probably 20% is donor funded. And we've come, you know, I someone tell me once, you can the idea that a that the donor dollars are free. This is I don't know, I'm gonna speak just really black and white. Um yeah, go for it. That's a that's a misnomer. Like you've you are building relationships for that to happen. You are you're you know, quote unquote working, and then there are in big nonprofits, there are people that work in development, and their job is to establish relationships for the sake of raising money, right? And I'm just more wired to go work and try to find more work. Um, and so God has been really gracious to put people in our path along the way that really he stirs in their heart and they give money, and that that's where the donor stuff comes from, far more than us reaching out to people and saying, Hey, would you consider a gift of this much? So we are it we're getting revenues coming from both sides of that, and then we just try to be mindful of you know that every donor dollar helps us to reduce the cost for for what it costs to come on a trip. And there are certain programs that we can run because of that that we just couldn't run. And we can we can come time sometimes say to a group, your fee is cut in half or your fee is non-existent, or you know, whatever. And so we try to use the donor money that way, just to be faithful stewards of of adventure.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Right. I love that. And do you want to talk a little bit about because I think you know, sometimes maybe when we think of these types of organizations, we might think of one type of clientele. So maybe it's in leadership or you're taking a team out or whatever, but you guys serve a lot of different people, a lot of different ages. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? Because I think it is a little bit different. I don't know. I'm somebody where I always feel like people are like, oh, you niche, and this is what you do, and this is how you're successful. And I look at you guys, and obviously you're still around at 19 years, so I feel like that's a success, and the Lord has um, you know, been able to provide. But do you want to just talk a little bit about like different people that you serve?

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Yeah, we're wide open. Uh, I think initially it was it was probably out of an instinct for survival. I mean, it was like we need we need to, if there's work, we need to do it. Um, what I've since come to appreciate is that we are very broad in what we do and who we do it with, and then we're very specific with every group that we work with. And so we we can we work with students, you know, as young as fifth grade, all the way up to adults. And we work with uh groups as large as we'll have a school group this year that's probably pushing 150 students, all the way down to you know, this past spring, we had a backpacking trip that was just a mom and her son. So really small all the way to really big, one-day trips up to you know, as long as you want to go in the southeast, or we'll go out west if you want. I mean, definitely very broad. And then with every group, we say, you know, what what are the goals of this group? Kind of where are they and what can we do to help them further those goals through adventure? And I think the the beautiful thing is adventure uh just it's such a good context to grow as an individual, to grow in relationship with one another, to grow in leadership, to grow in relationship to Christ. I mean, it it's so dynamic and so multifaceted that if you pay attention, you can I can take one group climbing to accomplish one set of goals. I can take another group climbing and accomplish an entirely different set of goals. Right. So it's while it makes internally it makes work much more. I mean, uh difficult is probably not the right word. We have nothing as cookie cutter, and so if an instructor comes and works with us.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

It's like everything is um everything is tailor-made to the group that's coming. And so you can begin, you know, for those of us that have worked a long time and our program director that's full-time, you can kind of look at something and know how we're gonna do it. But for someone that's just getting going, we have to say, no, no, no, I know we're still canoeing with and you were canoeing yesterday, but we're canoeing it's very different the way we're running this today. I mean, to say that it keeps it interesting, it it does, but that's not real. I mean, we really do it because that's the most effective way to help people have a good experience. And that's going back to it. That's why we started this was to engage people and help them grow. So it's so interesting to think of. I think sometimes if we were starting it now, so much would be different.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

I mean, we don't really use social media effectively very much at all, but there's so many there are things that are in place now. I don't know if we would do things differently, but certainly it would raise a different set of questions. Um 20 years in, I think I see so much that could be different, so much that could be better's not the right word, just ways we could keep growing. And I sometimes have to come back to you know the 27, 28-year-old version of me, 30-year-old version. If you had said to him, You're gonna be around for 20 years, I would have been like that, okay, that's it. I don't I don't need to know how much I'm making. I don't need to know that longevity is it is a benchmark of um you know of success or something worth noting, I guess. And then to come back and say, well, the longevity is not because of me.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

Right, is a very freeing thing.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Yeah, definitely only God.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

Um, I want you to talk a little bit about too. You've mentioned it a couple of times, but like it is Christ-centered also. And so, you know, how do you navigate and incorporate that because you are working with such different clientele from corporations to schools? What does that look like and how important is it that what you guys do and when you take people out? And um, I love that you start with like, hey, what is your goal? But also one of your goals and your mission is to preach the gospel. So can you talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Yeah, definitely. That was a a question that we wrestled with a lot in the beginning was how are we going to incorporate this into what we do? And we just went back and forth a little bit on how it would impact who we worked with. And so, you know, in the tradition that I grew up in, even now and and kind of across the board, it's very easy to just say, we're a Christian camp, we're a Christian adventure organization, we're, you know, whatever, we're Christian musicians, you know, just kind of create these boxes. And it that just never it's just not who I am, it's not who my wife is. And still we wanted to be upfront about this is who we are, and ultimately we're doing this as a means of honoring Christ, and we want to help people wherever they are take some step toward uh knowing him. And so kind of what we settled on was you know, we we know we don't want to do that, we feel called to work with anyone that the Lord would bring our way, and we want to be up front, so let's just put on our website this is who we are. We're operating from a Christian worldview, and that our goal is to honor Christ by providing adventure experiences that are transformative. And so we just try to couch it in those terms and then and then functionally, in a sense, free free us up from some idea that everything we did had to have some overt, okay. Now here's the Christian part of what we're doing.

unknown 42:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

And so, like, no other part of our life works that way. Like, you don't add a conversation, you know, run into someone at the coffee shop and say good to see you, hey. I just want to tell you now I have to have my Christian part of the I want you to know Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Like so true. It's so true.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

So we just said, let's be upfront about who we are. And then if honoring Christ means that we go for a school group and we are just consummate professionals and we operate at a level that um that they would say, not we want higher ground because they're the best Christian program, but we want to work with higher ground because they're the best bar nun, then that's bringing honor Christ's name by being you know about him and all that we do. So that's the way that we uh approach it. And then with so we have some groups that we are it's very interwoven in everything that we do and very overt, and then we have some groups that they kind of know that's where we're coming from. Um but they don't care, they just we do a good job and we the fact that we are relationally driven shines through, and that's why they that's why they hire us. And even that makes the job seem it just seems like an extension of who we are as people and not some hat that we have to put on when we go to work.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

Right. Yeah, and you're so right in that. And I mean, I've even seen that is I I've had people say, you know, like, well, you have your children's book series and there's nothing about God in there. And it's like, yeah, because I want them to go into schools, and is if you look at it, you know, like the lessons of giving and gratitude and kindness and how we treat like it's like the the lessons of the Bible are in there, but I never felt like God's. Said, oh, you have to put me all over this book. It's like, no, I can handle outcomes and like whatever happens. You just do what I'm calling you to do. So I love that you mentioned that because I do think that sometimes as Christians, people who are looking to start a nonprofit, a business, whatever, fill in the blank is, they do struggle and wrestle with it. Um, and so I I love how you guys do it. You put it beautifully. Um I want to pivot uh a little bit is you've mentioned, and then if you have something else you want to come back, but it this just popped up. So uh you mentioned your dad a couple of times. And so do you want to talk a little bit about your dad and and his journey? And I know I just got to know his story through your podcast. If you want to share a little bit about that, but I don't know if you're okay like pivoting and talking about that.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Uh we'll see if I uh I sometimes can't get through this very smoothly, but um that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

I I'm already kind of tearing up, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

So I am I'm fortunate to have had a dad. Um both my parents are both fantastic, and and while some people's story is written very differently because of growing up in a um an adverse environment, mine is not. I grew up with um two parents that stayed married, loved me, and my dad uh was just my my my hero, but I don't know, kind of that that doesn't describe he just was a constant in my life, and uh definitely in the is the one that kind of exposed us to adventure and all these things that I do now, and uh so I used to joke with him that it's his fault that this is what I do, and um and so he was always an anchor for me on the business side of things because his world was accounting and later wealth management, and that was just the language that he spoke, and so I I could just kind of offload all of that to him uh with regard to higher ground, and I I just didn't have to worry about it if there was something that needed to be filed. He filed it if if there was a conversation we needed to have, like the one I referred to earlier, he would drive it, and it was such a huge thing. And probably I don't know the years, um, but in the last handful of years, uh he passed away in December of 2024, so probably three years before that. Um, he started having symptoms of something he couldn't quite figure out what it was. I thought maybe Parkinson's ended up being uh ALS and you know that robe. I want to say from the time that he first really had symptoms to when he passed away was probably three years, but I don't I've not gone back to figure that out. But that's kind of what my recollection is. And his, you know, I think the thing that there's a couple things that come back um that that come up to me a lot about that. One just from a relational standpoint, was that when he got sick, uh there was not there was a lot of kind of anticipatory grief and just coming to terms with the illness and and what that meant for him and my mom and for for the rest of us, but there was not this rush to oh I've got to we've got to make it a lot of things right that weren't, you know, that weren't right. He lived a life in a way that he was good relationally all the way around him.

unknown 47:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

And I didn't need to hear from him, you know, I love you, because I'd I'd heard it always growing up. Uh love you and I'm proud of you. And when things were hard, I know you can do it. And so he had placed in me this narrative that still I lean on today, as much as I sometimes miss him and want to talk to him and hear him say those things, I can stop usually and say, I know what he would say. Um so there was that piece of it, and then I think for him, he said, once he kind of settled into it, I remember vividly some friends had come over to their house, old friends, and they had reminisced and watched backpacking slides, like slideshows. That's how long ago they started backpacking. Yeah, and uh the group gathered around and prayed for him afterward. And I was talking to him about how it was uh the next day, and he said it was you know, it was really good to see those people, and it was cool that they prayed. He said, But uh, tell you, buddy, I don't, I just I have a sense that this is how it's gonna go. I'm I'm not gonna be healed from this. And he said, I don't want my suffering to go to waste. And so every, you know, every I'd say every day from that decision point forward was him wrestling with how do I not waste my suffering? And he would tell you some days that came easier, and then some days he was kind of you know spitting mad about his reality and really frustrated as the disease continued to rob him of things. Right. Um, but he he remained steadfast in that effort to the end. And as it as it the disease became more and more invasive, and he you know began to lose the ability to speak, his desire to share Christ um just became more and more like if there was an effort, he would, you know, there'd be a caregiver over. My brother lives in Pensacola, my brother and sister do. And I remember him telling uh my my brother told me uh he was over there, and my dad somehow communicated. I'm like, you need to tell her about Jesus. Like, I can't I can't do it anymore, but I'm worried about her, you need to tell her about Jesus. Um and I think the we sometimes have a romanticized vision or view of what it looks like to live out something like that. I think the benefit for me of seeing it up close and personal was the realization that all the days don't look good. You know, all of our wrestling with the Lord, there are gonna be some days that um by his grace we handle it the way we want to handle it, and then there are gonna be some days that at the end of the day we're like I I kind of blew it today. Uh my flesh showed and my weakness showed. Um and it's all it's it's still all enduring. I mean, it's we're never done in that process of being shaped and molded into the image and likeness of Christ, um, right up into the end. So yeah, I mean, I I'm so thankful that he was my dad. I'm so thankful for all the things that he um exposed me to. And at every turn, he and my mom both, you know, the idea of not being an accountant and going to seminary, they were like, yep, you should do that. We can see, we can affirm that in these things. The idea of starting higher ground, yep, you should do that, and we're gonna support you at every turn. Um not that we you know, not that things would have been different. I I don't know, maybe they would have, but it's just a huge even uh it's a huge blessing, but that doesn't seem to communicate the gravity of it. I mean, it's uh so important to have people that are close to you in your corner saying, look, I don't know how it's gonna play out either, but I think you should do the thing that you feel called to do.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

I think you and I, we were raised very similarly, had very similar um upbringings and parents. And I mean, I I don't know about we didn't have a lot of money growing up, but what I can tell you is, you know, I've had a lot of friends and even over the years, you know, who did have a lot of wealth, but parents worked a lot. And and this is for parents and dads who are listening to this, is some of the biggest impact was yeah, those words of encouragement, those words of um, I mean, you know, everything you were saying about your father of like you can hear him, even though he's not here today, you can hear. And then that supportive of like, yeah, this is like the worldly path. And then you're gonna go this path because this is where you feel God calling you, and to have your dad support and go, okay, then we're gonna be here to support where God is is leading you. I just think it's so powerful. It makes a huge difference as a child. I don't know. I mean, I'm guessing you feel that is as a child. It's one, it's a way off because there is not this thought of like, oh, I'm disappointing my parents or my dad's an accountant and he wanted me to be an accountant, and so am I disappointing, you know, like that pool. And I think so many people do go down the path of like what they think their parents want, and then you just live this miserable life, and God's like, no, I had this life over here for you. And so, anyways, I just it's so beautiful how your father um fathered, how he was a parent to you.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

Yeah, I remember, you know, growing up, I know that he missed baseball games okay. You know, I know I know the season of the year that he was at work a lot, but I never there's no part of me ever that had some lingering feeling of him not being present and not being there for us. He just was present, whatever, whatever way that looked like. And it's interesting, and and I take great comfort as a parent now to know that all along the way he didn't know, you know. I think as parents, you kind of have this natural fear of like, I'm screwing this up and uh don't know how it's gonna play out. So to know that he experienced that, but then as a to know also as a kid, I didn't feel any of that gives me hope that in all the things I know I do poorly as a parent. You know, hopefully there's something happening that's creating um this thread throughout my kid's life that you know, mom and dad are here no matter if they goofy. Right, you're present, you're present. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:44

The other thing about your father, too, that I want to point out is um his choice, you know, is we always have a choice in life of how we respond, how do we act. Um, and it's easy to when life's going well, of the choices that we make, but in his situation, um, you know, from ALS is we know there's no cure, we know it is a death sentence, and your dad made the choice to not waste that suffering. And like you said, it wasn't that it was every day was grand and hunky dory, and he was like, Oh, thank you, you know, for the suffering. Right. But I think, like, did that come from? Um, I guess maybe just talk a little bit about where that came from and his desire to go, yes, I do have a choice, how I'm gonna live out my last days, and I'm not gonna waste this, and I'm gonna preach the gospel, and I'm still gonna live, I mean, live out a calling that God has all my life till he takes me.

SPEAKER_00 54:46

Yeah, I think, I mean, he and my mom both have close relationships with the Lord. And I I think one thing that I saw my dad always doing was not in a formal sense. I mean, it was intentional, but I think not in the way that you sometimes see now. He he was always open to growing as a person and always wanted to get better, whether that was in in business or you know, in a hobby that he was doing, um, or growing in his faith. So through that, he was always open to information. He was always receptive to, you know, here's where I am, there's a gap between here and where I want to be, what does it look like? And I think that that process for him was born just out of a long relationship with Christ and consistently spending time reading the Bible and praying, and then coming to terms with I I remember a conversation that we had probably as it was kind of all unfolding. And he said, I I think I just thought up till now that if you lived life a certain way and made good decisions, that it would all work out okay in the end. And I'm learning that that's not the case. Like I've I've made my share of mistakes, but by and large, I've made pretty good decisions and lived a good life, and yet here I am, and you know, this is not the traveling the country in an RV with your with your mom like I thought we were gonna do for a while. So I think for them, for he and my mom, there was a lot of grieving and letting go and and accepting, like we kind of had one set of plans that we thought we were gonna do in retirement, and it's all very different and it's gonna come to an end pretty quickly in the grand scheme of things. Um, but I I think it was there was wrestling with the decision, but there wasn't this big I've gotta come to a decision of how I'm gonna handle this. It was just born out of who God had grown him to be and born out of just lots of years of consistency in terms of his relationship with Christ. He he definitely is uh was one that would say all you can control is your response to something and there's little things that we know to be true.

SPEAKER_01 56:54

And I think for him he actually lived by it.

SPEAKER_00 56:56

Yeah, he recognized like this is yeah, I can either do the things I can live the way that I've always said someone should live, right? Or I can fold. Um but I think he recognized the futility in that too. There was right, the outcome was gonna be the same either way, yeah. So why not accept that for reasons beyond our understanding, this was the the cards that he had been dealt, and it wasn't by accident, you know, the Lord was still in control of it, and so try to be faithful and and grow up until the end. And that's that's what he did. And um again, like right up into the end, I benefit from his living example of of trying to be faithful to Christ, however that looked.

SPEAKER_01 57:40

Right. No, I love that. Um, I'd like to wrap up on this point, is you do have a podcast, and uh I'd love for you to share it because I think it's something that lacks in the world today, and that is grit. But also is I would love for the listener to go listen to the interview with your father. It was, I mean, I tear up just thinking about it. It was such an impactful interview, and I also appreciated his vulnerability and to be able to do it and and share his story. And so uh maybe just share a little bit about your father's episode, your podcast, and and grit, uh, because I do think it's something that is lacking in the world today.

SPEAKER_00 58:20

Yeah, yeah. So the podcast is called Everyday Grit. Uh, if I treated my children or my pet like the podcast, someone would have taken them away from me. It's a kind of a neglected podcast, but that's just me. I've got to work on some things. Um, and I think that the idea came from I look at endurance sports and I look at adventure, and it's easy to put some of the people that we see in that arena on a pedestal for the strength and grit and endurance they have. And, you know, you go through a few hard years of life and you're like, look, every day takes a fair amount of grit just to get through the day. And sometimes we are avoiding leaning into that in favor of the next big thing that we're gonna do in the mountains or the next race we're gonna run. So, what if we talked about things that matter in life and that um help us in and then the my other I don't really like black and white thinking? I tend to find that there's a lot of nuance and things. So I wanted to be able to share some of that. So somewhere along the way, you know, after dad got sick, I said, Hey, we could, you know, we could talk about what your journey has been uh through this if you want. And he immediately was receptive and said, Yeah, I want to do it. I said, Okay. So we went down um for fall break just to spend some time, and I I just brought podcast stuff with me. And by that point, he had begun to lose the ability to speak. And for the first few days we were there, I was thinking, I don't think he can do this. His talking is is labored enough that I'm not sure he can sit down and get through an episode. And it could be really frustrating to him. I don't want to, so I just was not bringing it up and not pushing it. And we were sitting around one night and he said, You know, are we gonna do that podcast? So yeah, yeah, we can do it tomorrow. And I said, Uh, here's an outline of what I think we'll talk about, and it was just kind of bullet points. And I said, You can, you know, just so you know. And I got the idea once we were talking that he had things he was gonna talk about, regardless of any outline I gave him.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:18

He's like, I don't care about your bullet points, Nathan.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:20

Yeah, he's like, whatever. Uh and so we sat down, and that hour that you hear recorded, I cut some parts out where he just got overwhelmed with emotion and and we had to stop for a minute. But that's about the clearest that he spoke, at least up to that point in our visit. And it was, I remember sitting there as we were recording thinking, he hasn't we've been here for three days, and he hasn't been able to talk this coherently without being labored since we've been here. And to be able to share with him, I don't have huge reach, but to be able to share with him that this I got this email about your episode, or I got this message, and oh this many people have heard it now. Like that, not in a number sort of way, but just the tangible for him to know oh, this this suffering and my attempts to let it have purpose. Like that story is seeping out, and and it probably now, I mean, it easily is the most listened to episode that I've ever done, probably always will be. Right. You know, it's cool to be able to to know that that exists um beyond him, and it you know, it's out there as long as the internet and podcasts exist, and people can hear a snapshot of where he was, the things that he'd come to terms with up to that point, um, with that disease. And I think it's his ability to speak truth beyond circumstance and know, you know, I know this to be true even on the days I don't feel it. I think that would probably summarize how that episode played out. Um, and then you know, the gift that it is to to me, I can go back and listen to it anytime I want and and uh get to hear him kind of hash through. And I sometimes I think the last time I listened to it, I was like, Oh, I wish I would have been a better interviewer at the time I did it. But there's a lot going on. It's my dad and he's sick, and we're you know, right, yeah. So I can give myself grace and try it out.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:13

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:14

No, if I don't remember offhand, but you'll you'll find it in there if you go find everyday grit and scroll down through the episodes. It's it's pretty early in probably in the first 10 episodes we talk.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:25

Yeah. I love it. Um, as we wrap up, anything that I didn't mention or share or part of your story that's like an only God thing, or are you like, no, we covered it all?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:36

No, I think that's the the I think that's the thick and thin of it. I mean, there's um there are instances all throughout higher ground being here where you could point and say this was a door that we walked through and this was the way the word was faithful. And right I think if I could encourage anyone, it would be to pay attention to the gnawing voices. And and people are wired differently. Some people have a million ideas a day and they shouldn't pay attention to half of them.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

But for some, you know, um there's a thing that just kind of keeps chirping and you just like squash it down because you don't know what to do with it. But I would pay attention and just ask what if. That that question of what if kind of leads to another question. If you can just one question at a time, one step at a time, and be open to realizing that you don't have to have all the answers, you don't have to have all the knowledge, you just have to have the willingness to take one step and then another and then another. Um you you never know where it's gonna go. And I'm yeah, in a sense, I would say I am living my dream, but it that seems like too me centered. It's not I am, and it's all a gift. It's not something that uh I could spin the narrative to like, oh, my hard work and I work really hard, and that is not enough. It um it's a gift from the Lord for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:59

I love that. Well, Nathan, thank you so much uh for coming on and sharing your only God story with us.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:05

Yeah, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:08

Hey friends, thank you for joining me today on the Only God podcast. I hope today's story encouraged your faith and reminded you that God is still writing our stories each and every day. If you were inspired by this episode, please share, subscribe, and tell a friend, and to stay connected with me and find out about all my resources and events or word creative. Have a fabulous day.